208 How Yoga In The Therapy Room Can Help With Nervous System Regulation: Interview With Amanda Baker

Chris McDonald: How can yoga be a tool to help with nervous system regulation? What are some ways to integrate yoga into sessions? In this week's episode of Yoga in the Therapy Room Podcast, we're exploring how yoga can be a powerful tool to help with nervous system regulation and how to let intuition be your guide.

Discover how yoga helps both therapists and clients to find balance and calm, especially when working with trauma and anxiety. Curious about how yoga could transform your therapeutic practice? Today's guest, Amanda Baker, will be sharing her wisdom. And she also will be teaching a short yoga practice for you to experience firsthand.

Join us for a heart centered conversation on creating a more embodied therapeutic approach with yoga on today's episode of Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast. Stay tuned. Welcome to Yoga in the Therapy Room, the non traditional therapist guide to integrating yoga into your therapy practice. I'm Chris McDonald, licensed therapist and registered yoga teacher.

This podcast is here to empower therapists like you with the knowledge. Knowledge and confidence to bring yoga into their practice safely and ethically. So whether you're here to expand your skills, enhance your self-care, or both, you are in the right place. Join me on this journey to help you be one step closer to bring yoga into your therapy room.

Welcome back to the Yoga In the Therapy Room podcast, the Non-traditional therapist guide to Integrating Yoga into your therapy practice. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, and today's episode is how yoga in the therapy room can help with nervous system regulation. As mental health therapists, we know many clients struggle to stay regulated.

This can manifest in a lot of different ways, including anxiety, anger, rage, and depression. And of course, depression. So today we're going to be exploring how incorporating yoga and therapy offers a powerful means to help clients access more calm, balance, resilience, and help with overall emotional regulation.

Here to guide us on this journey is Amanda Baker. She's a mental health therapist, 500 hour yoga instructor, and poet. She integrates in mental health, yoga, creativity, and writing into her work and daily life. She has worked in the clinical field of social work for over 10 years, and in the last five years she has utilized yoga psychology as a framework for treating mental health diagnoses, symptoms, and mind body restoration.

We'll discuss how yoga is a form of nervous system regulation, how specific practices can support this, and why these tools are effective in trauma informed care. Plus, the bonuses, Amanda will bring you a hands on yoga practice that you don't want to miss. Welcome to the Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast, Amanda.

Amanda Baker: Hi, yes, thank you so much for having me.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I'm so glad that you could come on the show. So how did you first discover yoga?

Amanda Baker: Yeah, so I'm gonna kind of backtrack a bit here. I got into yoga when I was in undergrad in college, studying psychology to become a therapist. And I found that yoga was a great supplement for my own kind of exercise routine at the time.

What I learned over the course of that was the benefit really of being present and with your body. And so it really became this active and also restorative practice for me throughout undergrad up until graduate school and then eventually. I continued with the practice while working just regularly two, three times a week going to classes.

And randomly one day I received an email about attending a yoga teacher training and the timing worked out for the actual in person parts of the training. The cost seemed more affordable than other places. So like, I'll go ahead and I'll just sign up for this and my journey in terms of integrating yoga and therapy together along with Uh, learning more and really leaning more into my own practice, uh, really started almost spontaneously.

Chris McDonald: Oh, wow. So it sounds like this wasn't where you thought you were going.

Amanda Baker: No, no, not at all. I loved yoga as a supplement for myself or a practice for myself, but I never thought that, I would teach it or really share it in this way.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, absolutely. I never envisioned myself to be a yoga teacher and here I am.

Amanda Baker: So

Chris McDonald: yeah, it's just

Amanda Baker: kind of funny how life takes you in that direction, right? Yes. Yeah, it is. And just listening to that, I think it it's been kind of so true to like, like my heart that I don't view it as work. I, I view it more as. It's something that's a part of me that I then get to offer to others.

Chris McDonald: Ooh, I love that.

So how do you bring yoga in your therapy room?

Amanda Baker: Yeah. So I take a very intuitive approach though. I work with all ages, used to primarily work with children. And so originally I did a training on child radiant yoga and offering it more to, to kids to kind of get attuned with their body a little bit more playfulness.

And I did that more through groups and classes. Uh, and then. I started to really witness and experience the benefits of it in teaching it, teaching yoga classes outside of being a therapist. And then I had people, adults start coming to me asking for one on one sessions. And that's where I had this idea of, Hmm, how can I make this maybe a part of therapy?

A lot of the adults already had a therapist, but really were feeling stuck in terms of the talk therapy. And so when they were coming to my classes, which I'd The time was titled therapeutic yoga. Uh, they said, you know, can we do this more one on one? And it kind of grew from there, uh, in working more with adults and then also being able to incorporate.

Movement breath mindfulness meditation into the sessions. And like I said, I take a very intuitive approach. So it's going to look very different for each person and whether we're on the floor doing yoga, whether we're seated there on the couch, I'm in the chair, whether we're standing, whether it's 2 minutes or whether it's 55 minutes, it's kind of something to experience and maybe a little difficult to even put into words.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, sometimes it can be, especially if it's a more organic approach. And let's see what comes up and what this person is needing. Yeah, exactly. Makes a lot of sense. So how does nervous system regulation tie into yoga with you?

Amanda Baker: So I, I take a framework from Dugena Fisher, where she talks about sensory motor therapy.

And. nervous system regulation from a trauma lens of what's called your window of tolerance. And so I view it like we all have this window kind of like a square maybe, but it's going to vary in size for each person. And so some of us have a very small window and some of us have a larger window. And that window is essentially the place where you can experience.

Stress, emotions, memories, thoughts from a place of attunement or regulation. So meaning this isn't overwhelming me, I'm able to still be attuned to my body or to my better judgment in decision making. And so when we go out of that window, we can go into hyper arousal where we might be feeling more panicked, anxious, overly stressed, anger, enraged, and we're using a whole different part of the brain.

Okay. Or we can go kind of under that window, which is more of your depression, detachment, dissociation, helplessness, hopelessness, fatigue, low motivation. And so that's an internal system. That's your whole nervous system. And so to practice integrating in with the body of, can I widen my window? And that might be getting into a yoga pose that Feels uncomfortable that kind of stresses you out and the practice of using your breath to be in it for a little bit longer.

It might help you widen your window of tolerance to stress and triggers, but then you can also practice going back into your window. And so are there soothing practices, maybe using your breath or slowing down in your body to not go beyond your limit, but to actually come back in to being more present to the moment.

So I call that the nervous system regulation.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Yeah. I call it nervous system yoga.

Amanda Baker: I like that too. Nervous system yoga. Yes.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. But I think that going, you know, out of it, going on the edge too with yoga can be helpful. And I'm thinking of clinical theory. If we think of like DBT, distress tolerance, sometimes we're, we don't want to push them too far.

We want to bring them to the place that we can push on the edges. To hopefully get them the place to open the windows. I think that's what you're talking about, right?

Amanda Baker: Yes. Yes, it is exactly. Not like purposefully triggering self through the practice, but getting right up onto that edge and being curious about what that's like.

What is it like to be here? I say that so much when I'm queuing up, what's it like to be here in this moment or in this shape and whether that's on the edge or even when you're softening, even when you're in a place of rest and more relaxation, what's that really like for you and your system?

Chris McDonald: And I love the simplicity.

What is that? Really? Like, is that like, so just that that's a simple of a cue, right? To kind of notice and pay attention. It's like, bringing that curiosity and yes, helpful for clients to that may not be used to questioning.

Amanda Baker: Yeah, I find that that yoga is. Uh, I say often it's my, my classes, my one on one work is about enhancing one's relationship with self.

And so exploring through awareness, consciousness, how do I talk to myself? How do I talk to these parts of myself or how do parts of self talk to each other? So you could have your critical part, your anxious part, and how are they working together or maybe working against each other? Are they in conflict?

Are they fighting? Asking ourselves these questions and communicating with ourselves to build upon a relationship that is one of safety, security, soothing, supportive, really starts to grow through practicing and therapeutic yoga.

Chris McDonald: So it sounds like you're talking about parts work.

Amanda Baker: Yep. Yes. So I integrate in a lot of internal family systems into the yoga work.

So that's really where the therapy and yoga overlap so much.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Is there any other clinical theory you'd like to bring in? Good

Amanda Baker: question. So, I would say acceptance and commitment therapy, the use of metaphors, so physicalizing a lot of what one sensation is within the body. You can give it a color, you can give it a shape, a size, how do you describe it?

Utilizing the senses, so through mindfulness, so a little bit of pulling from DBT there, but I would say a lot of it is like this intuitive practice. energy, psychology, sensory experiencing. So I've done a lot of different trainings with different people and taking that eclectic approach, particularly into the individual client.

Chris McDonald: So I know you talked about like, if people are like in the hyper arousal, maybe the anxiety or anger, bringing them down into the calmer zone and even pushing the edge. What about depression? Is there ways that you help people who may be more in the hypo arousal?

Amanda Baker: Sure. And I would say that the first step is that curiosity and then leaning into where you are and then kind of moving out of it.

And so from that hyper aroused state, the anxiety, I would say before soothing and coming down actually activate. So, like, be with that activation of arousal. And so from the depressive side. would say lean into the sadness, the hopelessness, the helplessness, feeling heavy. So coming into like more grounded postures, laying on the floor or laying outside on the grass.

And so really leaning into I'm feeling heavy right now. Maybe I curl up into a ball and I get really small. on purpose because maybe I feel very small or I feel I'm very alone and then slowly starting to open up out of that and creating more energizing motions and movements, maybe through twisting to start to awaken that energy again.

Chris McDonald: I just had a picture of you laying on a mat outside. I was like, that's awesome.

Amanda Baker: Yeah. Yeah. Um, 1 time I was working with someone. I don't usually take my clients outside, but actually, uh, I forgot my keys to where I work in the studio and the client was like, let's do this outside. Let's just go on the, you know, on the patio.

And so to, to be creative in that way, and to really like, use nature as well.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, and I think that being flexible is so helpful and powerful, and I, I did that with a client recently, too, and brought her outside with there's a little stream in the back of where we were, and we just looked there and name the color shapes.

What do we see? What do we hear? Almost like a little mindful walk. And then we did some mountain pose outside with the sun shining on us. I think there's so much to be said for that. Me too. That integration.

Amanda Baker: Yeah. Cause we're, we're so much more than just our thoughts or our beliefs or even our identity.

And so to pull from so many different things with the body, with nature and, and really have that comprehensive approach.

Chris McDonald: So how do you handle it if, if they're too much out of their window of tolerance? So what do you do with clients to be able to help them stay within that? So it's not pushed too far.

Amanda Baker: I, I take a lot at the beginning of prompting of this is your practice.

If there's anything that IQ or that I offer that you don't want to do to also make note of that and to listen to self. And so that might mean coming out of a shape or, or a pose that might mean they do something that I am. Not necessarily queuing. That might mean let's pause. And if it feels like safest right now to talk, then we will talk.

And so a lot of that activation comes from a place of feeling unsettled in self or unsafe in self. And so they might need that sense of safety and sometimes being out of a window of tolerance or in a place of overwhelm is actually more familiar. And so letting that be welcomed of, like, what is this here for?

And what is it trying to tell you? And so we might identify where, like, going kind of with that parts work. Model of like, well, where is it in your body? Or maybe it's not even inside your body. Or maybe we need to focus outside of your body. Maybe we need to look at the colors of the wall and just to have some grounding in the moment to support the system in feeling in feeling safe.

And if that's all we get to, that's still therapy. That's still. Still, that's enough. Yeah, that's enough.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. So sometimes just thinking what is the way best way to meet them where they are in that moment.

Amanda Baker: Yeah, I think we as clinicians get into our own parts of are we doing enough? Are we productive when we do more?

Yeah, so we were like, did I really help them? Was it worth their time? Like, that adds to the energy between you and the person that you're working with. And I think they're going to feel some of that doubt too. And so when we can remind ourselves, they're here, they're showing up, they're getting something even from these really small, minor things that we may be doing, which might really be big for them.

I was going to say, it may not be minor. They

Chris McDonald: may not be minor. Yeah. Yeah, I had a client that was You know, really stressed out by body scans and very triggering. We just said, notice your feet on the floor. That was the only cue. And that really helped her to stay grounded. I think we can just break this down and simplify.

Amanda Baker: Simple sometimes is the way. Simple sometimes is, is better than these really big theories or kind of grand aha moments.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. But I think you're right. I think therapists get in their head too, about integrating yoga into sessions, which is why I have this podcast too, because they really think that we're going to be jumping into warrior two.

Amanda Baker: It doesn't have to be that

Chris McDonald: way.

Amanda Baker: Yup. There's, yeah. Yoga is so much more than just the physical asana. So yes, to, to be broader.

Chris McDonald: So how do you bring the intuitive approach? I know you mentioned that a couple of times, so what does that mean for you?

Amanda Baker: Sure, so it means for myself taking time in between sessions for myself.

I know going back to back to back can feel really draining can start to also get disconnected from myself and being present and so I have various type of rituals that I might do in between a session and it could be just. Going upside down in a forward fold or taking, you know, something where my body's in a different perspective.

And sometimes it's playing a song and dancing around the room. And so I do these things for me so that I'm in my window so that when they show up, I can get a sense really of where they are. And so I use a lot of mirroring a lot of person centered approach. So that we're building that trust, that safety and connection.

So that I can get a sense for what it is that would be best for, for them or us in the period of time that we're together. Uh, and it's, it's, it is hard to explain because a lot of times for me, it's, it's a picture, it's a word that I get intuitively that just comes to like

Chris McDonald: my

Amanda Baker: third eye, like where I'm like, Hmm, I'm just sensing to do this right now.

And I'm going to listen to it.

Chris McDonald: And you listen, that's the important part.

Amanda Baker: Yes. Which took time to do. I would hear kind of something and might ignore it in my earlier years of doing this work. And then the more that I actually started to listen and I would get that feedback from that person was like, I can't believe you, you said that line.

So a lot of the people I work with or who come to my classes say what I speak is so resonant for them. And that is like this flow state that I'm in, or what I. Some might call the genius zone of, of really getting into that place and self where it just flows through me and I'm really not thinking, uh, and I do very, very little planning ahead of time.

Chris McDonald: So, it's like being in that openness.

Amanda Baker: Yes, and trusting the process. trusting myself.

Chris McDonald: How did you build that confidence?

Amanda Baker: I did. My, my early yoga teacher training was a 200 hour Hatha Raja yoga training, and that gave me a good, really good foundation. I think it gave me the confidence to, to teach because I went into it not expecting to teach at all.

I just wanted to deepen my own practice. And then I realized that I really liked teaching and I did want to offer it to others. And so in my first year of teaching after that 200 hour, I found Ashley Turner's Yogi Psyche Soul, I think it was, is what it was called, which she brands as yoga psychology.

She's out in California. She's doing a lot more perinatal menstrual cycle stuff for, for women like in their forties and over now. But at this time, about five years ago, she was offering 300 hour yoga psychology teacher training for specific for therapists. Uh, who wanted to integrate yoga in, in a therapeutic approach or more mental health approach.

And that really gave me a lot, I would say of confidence, a lot more experience, a lot more understanding and ideas. And it grew myself intuitively, even though in the first 200 hour teacher training I was, we were instructed to do. regular meditation, regular writing. We didn't do very much when it comes to chanting and breath work.

And so that was a big part of my 300 hour training. So it built a practice for me of doing some chanting, some breathing, more meditation regularly that then when I would go up and show up to teach, I was really in that place of embodying myself in sense of belonging, confidence in what I'm sharing.

Chris McDonald: And I'm just going back to what you said about between clients and doing some of these yoga poses.

So it's therapist, nervous system regulation, so that you can be in the best position to help clients with their nervous system regulation.

Amanda Baker: Yes. I think our own self care and yes, our own nervous system regulation, our own, whether it's healing work, whether we see a therapist or ourselves. I have for like 15 plus years, it's being human and I take this approach to with my clients that even though they might see me as whether you want to say there's a hierarchy and I'm the authority or I'm the expert, I really believe that each person is their own expert and they're teaching me as much as I'm teaching them.

And I think they feel that resonance or they feel that authenticity that they're more vulnerable. They're more open. They're like, well, Amanda's human, too. So, when, when I do my classes, and even when I offer more yoga in a session, I am doing it and this might be different than other. People's approaches, but I do it with them.

So whatever. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. I'm getting into as well. Like I have to feel with you

Chris McDonald: because I think it would be weird in a session. If we say, Hey, inhale, bring your arms up and then you don't do it. You just are staring at. I think

Amanda Baker: feel really weird about that. She's watching me the whole time. Yeah, which it was different in, like, a teacher training because I was true as a teacher.

You don't do the whole practice up on your mat with you're moving around the room or you're queuing. And that never felt resonant for me. And so I was very much kind of going against that. that in my first teacher training, and when I came out, I just, when I was being hired at studios, who maybe wanted me to not do the whole practice.

And I say like, I do 99 percent of the practice with everyone. Who wanted me not to do it that way, I would say, well, that's the trauma informed way and this is my approach and I'm really listening to myself, and if you don't want me to do it that way, then maybe this isn't the place for me to offer this class.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. I'm just trying to picture teaching a class with, when I, if you didn't do the practices, like I always do the, almost the whole class. I, I can't imagine .

Amanda Baker: Yeah. So it sounds very like, very much Right, real and true to you to be doing, doing it with them like we're students. Along with them, not any better or necessarily any more wise or experienced where it comes from a place of more of that equality.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I think it does kind of give a different message, different feel and it makes a lot of sense for sure. I know you mentioned trauma informed. So how do you keep your practice trauma informed?

Amanda Baker: A lot of that too goes along with the autonomy that each person has. So making it very clear at the beginning of class, anything that I cue or say that does not resonate with you or does not align with you in this moment for you and your body, you don't have to do it.

Skip it. Go into child's pose or even Shavas and I have some people who come in and they lay on their mat the whole entire time and that's so important. still to me doing yoga, we go over things like, you know, where's the exit and just taking note of the surroundings, listening to one's heart rate. So a lot of it I think is, is the cues, the autonomy, the sense of safety and building upon that in the practice, that the practice is also about building your empowerment or creating that.

Like inner resource, inner sanctuary and self that feels very safe and secure.

Chris McDonald: Are you a therapist interested in bringing yoga into your therapy room, but are unsure? How are you ready to take the next step and bring the benefits of yoga into your therapy sessions? Imagine feeling confident in using yoga as a therapeutic tool and knowing the when and how to bring yoga to sessions safely and ethically.

My Yoga Basics course for therapists is here. This eight part online training covers everything from nervous system regulation to understanding how to guide clients with yoga effectively. And through a trauma informed yoga lens, you'll have scripts for all yoga practices taught and two individual consults with me to support you on your journey.

The next course starts November 21st, so don't miss out. Get ready to build your confidence today. Go to hcpodcast. org forward slash yoga basics. That's hcpodcast. org forward slash yoga basics. Can you share a yoga practice today with our listeners?

Amanda Baker: I'd love to. So, So are you going to do this along with me? Of course. I'll

Chris McDonald: do

Amanda Baker: my best. Beautiful. Yeah, so go ahead and just take a few moments or a few breaths to start to tune into your body.

Whatever that might look like for you. Maybe the eyes will start to get heavy. They might gaze down or even close. Maybe you notice your shoulders. All the way down to your feet, to the soles of your feet, and take a deep full breath in and a full breath out and request your mind to inform your brain to send the signals down into your inner systems to be present, welcoming this presence, however, it is right now and wherever your attention goes.

Follow it. Gently take note of wherever it lands on, and then maybe it moves to something else. And maybe you invite in more intention for you to be your own guide. Guiding yourself through areas of the body, through movement, through breath, and through the practice. And as you're here in this present state, you are welcome to more specifically set an intention.

Whatever comes to your mind, let that be it. It wouldn't exist if you couldn't think about it. And I frame intention as the emotional energetic tone of that which you desire to feel. How is it that you want to feel right now? You may notice where your hands are, your fingertips. The center of your palm, and maybe you even take thumbprints on your fingerprints slowly.

However, this Q shows up for you. Let that be that you are opening up to the benefits of yoga to integrate into you and your system to give permission for the yoga to show up through you. That you don't have to do too much and so notice how your fingerprints move along your fingertip. The uniqueness of your fingerprint as you are the only you that exists and the aspects of you that's able to connect right now with self and even with us here on the podcast.

And now slowly begin to roll out your wrists. You can lift your hands and arms and you can start to roll your wrists. Maybe you experience some cracking, crinkling, so notice the sounds, and you can roll the other way. And then start to lift your hands up closer to your head and eyebrows. Take your pointer finger and your middle finger along your eyebrow from the inside of your eyebrows.

along the eyebrow and then down by the sides of your eyes. So a little self massage down underneath your eyes on your cheekbones and then back down your jawline soothing some of the muscles. Down by your chin and jaw and then cross the arms at the forearm so that your hands touch your shoulders the opposite hand to the opposite shoulder and then take your hands from your shoulders down towards your elbows.

And then back up. So this is called a delta technique. You can go up and down a few times with your breath that's known to activate the delta brain waves. So that space between relaxation and more conscious attention a few times. Let me notice what this feels like for you. One more time, with your breath, and then release.

Now bring the hands together, start to make a swish sound with your hands. So you'll create a little friction, a little heat, notice, and then pull the hands apart about an inch or so, maybe a little bit more than that. Attention right in between your palms. So I tend to experience this as a tingle sensation.

A slight vibration. That is your energy and it is unique to you. Notice what it feels like right now. Any changes? And maybe it's the same or different, better or worse. No right or wrong. And what it's like to be here and a little longer than if there's some dissonance or an urge to come out of it.

Continue to breathe and take one more breath in to be with your own energy. And take a breath out so you can slowly release the hands and roll your shoulders up and back by your ears and down a few times. And then the other way, forward, and then lift your hands and arms up in overhead for whatever space you have, reach the arms up, gaze up.

Now turn your palms away from you, it really doesn't matter which way, but this is a little more comfortable for me. And then we're going to take our right arm forward and the left arm back, while you keep looking up. Eye gaze up, and then come back to center, and the opposite, right arm back, left arm forward.

And then back through center. So this can be known to activate the right and left hemisphere of the brain as you're going in different directions at different times. And when you have the space, you can even take full arm circles. One more time. Notice again, a change in heart rate, a change in breathing.

You can bring the palms together and bring them down to the center of your chest. You can bow your head to your fingers and honor this quick, light, wonderful practice.

Chris McDonald: Namaste. Namaste. That was wonderful. I feel so calm. My intention is met to bring ease.

Amanda Baker: There we go. Yes, the power of intention.

Chris McDonald: So is that like nervous system regulation?

Amanda Baker: Yes, I would say that supports kind of recognizing where you are. So sometimes depending on who I'm with, I might say like, do you, do you feel hyper aroused right now? Do you feel hypo aroused? Do you feel like you're in your window? But I would say that is something that can be used really regardless where you are just to kind of bring you into completing the stress cycle.

So anytime that we might be intentionally activating our heart rate a little bit or constricting our breaths, you may have noticed when your arms were reached, it may have been a little harder to breathe. Eso that's kind of activating your nervous system a little bit. Or maybe a lot, uh, and then bringing it back down.

So kind of using the hands to attune to your energy just brings you back into that present moment.

Chris McDonald: Thanks for explaining that. That's, that's phenomenal. Great practice. I hope listeners enjoyed that as well. Me too. I want to definitely keep as a practice and a tool to help us too. Right. With our self-care and regulation makes such a difference.

So can you share some of the successes you've had with the yoga that you use with clients?

Amanda Baker: Sure, I would say one of the biggest, if I'm thinking like specifically, are those people that may have experienced multitudes of various trauma or complex PTSD, so more like long term types of trauma, whether that's within their early childhood, attachment figures, something that is maybe more continuous, like I said that multiple times, where that really affects one's sense of safety, one's sense of self.

Maybe chronic activation of their nervous system, really small windows of tolerance are often being up and down outside of their window. And so, for those that I've worked with that have more of those types of struggles, it is really difficult for them to be with their body. And so thinking of an example of someone who maybe doesn't.

feel safe closing their eyes or doesn't feel safe being on their back. And so I found that through the practice without saying that that's the goal, like it's not necessarily the goal to be able to close your eyes or to be on your back, but maybe the goal was just help with sleep. Like it's really hard to sleep if I'm fearful of closing my eyes or if I may roll around and then I end up in a position that's triggering for me.

Uh, and so, you know, I find. What can be successful is something that we didn't necessarily establish as a goal, but then that just happens through the process. And so then the ability to close your eyes in a yoga class or in breath work where, um, one may not expect it, that that's ever what would have happened, or they can now get into postures where they're on their back and they have these various supports.

I use a lot of props like bolsters, blankets. blocks. And so slowly kind of leaning the body towards that way and the mind to be working together and I'm present now and I'm safe, I find as really valuable successes.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. For sure. So what's the takeaway you could share for therapists who may be wanting to integrate some yoga, but are hesitant, what would you say to them?

Amanda Baker: Yeah, I would say really trusting what they're being shown. And so, for me, like I said, I never thought that I would ever be a yoga instructor. I. I'm terrified of public speaking and still getting up in front of a class is like also going kind of against my comfort zone. But there was something that I was just really being led towards.

Uh, and so if for someone, if that if they're noticing they're on that path towards yoga or they're interested in yoga, I would say, you know, take classes, get your own experience in it first so that you can really see the transformation or the benefits that it provides for oneself. I have support system, so now that this field is growing, like, talking to people about their experiences, listening to these kinds of podcasts, taking the time to really nurture yourself with the quality of this information.

That's now out there. I think all of that together can really support people in finding their own uniqueness and integrating and using yoga in the therapy room.

Chris McDonald: Perfect. I love that finding the uniqueness because even when you go through a teacher training or any kind of training with yoga, you can still find your own way with it.

What feels in alignment with you?

Amanda Baker: Yes, exactly. I mean, you and I both Both do this kind of work, but I bet if we put our practices next to each other, they would be very different. They'd have a lot of similarities, but they'd also be very different. And each person that works with us, like individually, probably likes aspects of us specifically for them that works for them.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, beautiful. So what's the best way for listeners to find you to learn more about you?

Amanda Baker: Yeah, so, um, I have some websites. I'm not talking about this much on here today, but I do also write poetry. I take a very creative approach to myself with myself and other people that I work with. So my specific website is amanda baker writes dot com.

So originally it started out just. For poetry, but my yoga stuff is on there where I do therapy is on their events workshops is on there. So that's a great place to start to get to know me. And there's a contact button where you can reach out to me as well. So it's W. W. W. dot Amanda Baker. Right? I also offer pre recorded videos of therapeutic yoga, mindfulness meditation, some like yoga nidra for sleep enhancement, and that can be found on my Patreon page.

So that would be patreon. com slash Amanda Baker. You amaze me.

Chris McDonald: Do you integrate yoga with poetry?

Amanda Baker: Uh, not as much. So a lot of It would be

Chris McDonald: cool.

Amanda Baker: It would be, yes. And I have looked into, I think there's like a whole degree that one can get on using creative writing as a therapist too. Um, so I don't have as much training in that.

Yeah, but I, I sometimes will read something that I wrote or I'll encourage people to add their own words. I guess, you know, I'm kind of correcting myself now because the way that I speak in my classes or one on one is probably very poetic. So I think it just comes out naturally and the way that I cue or in lines that I use.

So yeah, maybe giving myself.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, because I think if you do use some at the beginning that you're integrating with it, right? Yeah. Or, or like you said, if it intuitively comes up. That you share something so, so I think words are so impactful to to integrate that with the body. I think that's such an amazing collaboration, collaborative approach.

Right?

Amanda Baker: Me too. Some people will even say, you know, like, words, like spelling, like words are spells. And so the way that we speak to ourselves. Yeah. It's like. Gives me chills when I say those things, or when I tell people to set their intention and then I say, well, break down that word in tension. Right? So you also are moving through tension, being with tension for your intention to come and reveal itself to show it's never thought.

Yeah, there's powerful. So powerful, the way our language, you can break things down, depression, de expression, right? You're like repressing your emotions. So finding language can, can be very therapeutic.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I really appreciate

Amanda Baker: it. You're so welcome.

It was wonderful to be here and to, to share this with you all.

Chris McDonald: And we'll have her information in the show notes as well. And thank you listeners for tuning in to this episode with Amanda Baker. Hope you got a lot out of it. Are you struggling with burnout and feeling exhausted? Do you always put others first?

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forward slash workbook. And once again, this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light and love till next time. Take care. Thanks for listening to today's episode. The information in this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are giving legal, medical, psychological, or any other kind of professional advice.

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